Talk:West Azerbaijan province/Archive 2
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My position: there is no official statistics or percentages on ethnic numbers in Iran. There is no reliable other source as well. The CIA and others only give guesstimates. However, Azeris are in a strong majority in the capital city of Urmia (followed by Kurds), and in a slight but certain overall majority in the province. The exact percentage numbers however, are not known for a fact.
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I've been to the province 3 times btw.--Zereshk 03:09, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
- I know Wikipedia and what is an Encyclopedia.
I agree with this that "..there is no official statistics or percentages on ethnic numbers in Iran.."
- About capital city of Urmia it depends what is your defination about majority here, in fact the percentege of the Turks and the Kurds in this city is very similar but turks mostly are in sight specially because of the name of the province and their jobs and business in this city and their presence in central parts of the city but there are many many kurds specially in environs. (here we talk about the city). So there is a very close figures for the Turks and the kurds in the capital city of Urmia.
- But in the township of Urmia in rural areas that includes a large area with a large population the Kurds are in majority.
- This also is true about most of northern cities of the province but in Khoy which the city (and NOT the township) is mostly Turkish.
- Even with a minimum figures for the Kurds in the northern Turkish-Kurdish cities and townships of this province the result is a high majority for the Kurds. (But certainly it never does mean that a specific ethnic group such as the Kurds or the Turks are the owner (!!) of a province.)
- Diyako, trust me, the Turks say exactly the opposite of what you are saying. That's why it is better to take an impartial 50/50 approach. And I'm really reaching out here, because the Azaris are indeed a STRONG majority in Urmia and some of the cities in the province, contrary to what you claim. Dr Hamed even doesnt agree with 50/50. Ask him.
- Therefore, since there are no official stats, and since there is a standoff here, I strongly suggest that if youre going to cite and present pro-Kurdish sources as fact, then you must be impartial enough to do the opposite and add opposing Azeri sources as well. Only then can the article become balanced.
- Unfortunately, your edits have made the article look like as if the province belonged to the Kurds, the Turks took it over, gave it the name Azarbaijan, and that there is a full scale turf war going on between the Tehran backed Azeris on the one side, and the independence seeking Kurds on the other. Which is totally false.
- Also, the problem of the map must be resolved. Problems with the map: 1. It is an ethnic map of the 30 provinces of Iran, not the province of West Azarbaijan. 2. It inaccurately shows Urmia under Kurds (which is why you keep pushing for it). If you want to show it, fine. But you must also show its counter map (which shows Urmia under Azeris).--Zereshk 22:06, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
Dear Zereshk,
Thank you for all your steps toward resolving the problem.
- The Kurds as an Iranic ethnic group have lived in this province since many millinioums ago.
- The name of the province has political reasons.
- I had (and have) accepted your map but you kept removing mine. I think both maps must be put on the article.
- If we calculate the demography of the province we will see that the population of the Kurds is more than 70% and they are in strong majority. So we must do so.
Diyako Talk + 22:17, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
- "My map" is not on the page right now. You took it off.
- The source you keep posting does not say: "70% of West Azarbaijan are Kurdish".
- Your claim that the province is named Azarbaijan for political reasons can be mentioned, if provided with a source. You cannot present it as fact. Because the Turks think exactly the opposite. Iran already has a province called Kordestan.--Zereshk 23:08, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
- You can cite your map but you kept saving another one. (You can not remove other credible maps or sources.)
- But we can calculate and then we we will see (aabout the population).
- I have not yet put my claim about the name of the province in the article
- Iran already has a province called Kurdistan is another matter, that province is only a small region that does not cover all of iranian Kurdish lands.
Diyako Talk + 23:16, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
- Item 2 is unacceptable, because it is an example of "original research" which is prohibited by Wikipedia guidelines.--Zereshk 00:08, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
In fact, this Item proves that Kurds are in majority but about being an example of original research we must ask others too.
Diyako Talk + 00:19, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Why are these maps on the page - neither of which depict the province - either not at all or only peripherically. Can we please remove these and can we please become a lot more civil with each other? Refdoc 23:41, 13 December 2005 (UTC)